binding a 1953 Guild archtop

[Ian Davlin The Looth Group]

This sounds like a solid plan, but I have a couple questions. How are you planning on dimensioning the binding ? Which adhesive are you going to use ? Are you sure the finish can handle tape ?

[John Carey Guitarworks of North Jersey]

Ian, I was planning to try strapping tape on the back of the headstock to see if any issues.. The binding seems to come off rather easily without chipping the finish, using a scalpel. I usually stick the tape to my shirt to cut down on the adhesive stick if I worry. I was going to pre cut the binding down on the stew mac binding trimmer with colt router to within a few thousandths in height and width. Then lightly heat the bonding until pliable and pre bend and use tape sparingly to get the general bends. I could use canopy glue but I think I may opt for fish glue for easier cleanup on the old finish. Then carefully scrape if a little oversized. I think I will try to get it real close with the trimmer. Finally any touchup on the edges with shellac. If you have any suggestions or thoughts they are appreciated. Thank you. Jack

[Ian Davlin The Looth Group]

I would say test your fish glue first. If you’re using celluloid, my tests indicated that hide glue is guaranteed immediate failure.

I use gel ca and do small sections and hold with fingers. I also prebend. Things that are important are to scuff the binding and to put a small bevel on the bottom of the binding to make the edge adjacent to the sides look as tight as possible.

I usually replace color on the binding with an airbrush. How do you plan to use shellac and what color replacements ?

[John Carey Guitarworks of North Jersey]

Thanks for your suggestions Ian . I appreciate them. Scott gave me a few more.

I ‘ll keep a post here as I move along with it. Thanks again

[John Carey Guitarworks of North Jersey]

I can use an airbrush with tinted lacquer. I have in the past cut the shellac down with alcohol and sometimes tint it slightly and brush on with a very small brush. Usually I have to lightly sand and put a second coat or so on it. I have also brushed on tinted lacquer and sanded

[Ian Davlin The Looth Group]

@harpeth-guitar just did a gretsch rebind. He might have insight on this project as well. I’ll reach out and see what he says.

[Scott St. Dennis Harpeth Guitar Restoration, LLC]

It looks like single ply white binding? Compared to the country gentleman it looks a lot less problematic. I’ve had good luck with polymer glue (Titebond III) and binding tape with dreadnaught shaped acoustics. The 1960’s Gretsch lacquer that I’ve seen is usually able to hold up to stewMac brown binding tape.

Either way scuff the binding really good with 80-120 grit and bevel the bottom inside edge like Ian said.

This method wouldn’t work with the Country Gentleman because the horns and cutaways are too tight and I was using the StewMac pvc (abs?) binding.

I had to use gel CA glue like Ian recommended. To finish it off I use files & sandpaper instead of a scraper, just my personal preference. Then I top it off with glu+boost, fill, ‘n’ finish ultra thin. I sand over all the binding & F’n’F with 320 grit and wipe water diluted ColorTone Straw / Amber stain to get a good color match. After that dries for a few hours, I continue with top coats of fill and finish with a Q-tip or small precision foam lip applicator stolen from my wife’s cosmetic vanity. lol

If you join the Loothalong this morning I’ll show you.

[John Carey Guitarworks of North Jersey]

Scott

I appreciate the reply. I understand the procedure you outlined. I have used fill n finish with the q tips so I am familiar with that aspect. Since I have not done a complete re bind on an archtop with cutaway, I was assuming I should heat and pre bend the binding ( after sizing) and tape in place to get a close general shape before gluing. Maybe that isn’t necessary? ca gel sounds good followed by the ultra thin. I had to run some errands so I couldn’t join the Looth a Long this morning. If I have any questions I ‘ll shoot you a message. Thanks again for your time and expertise. Have a great day.

Jack Carey

[John Carey Guitarworks of North Jersey]

Upon measuring the binding channel, once I took a piece of binding off, the channel measures 3/32 thick and 6/32 tall. I figured I would have to go slightly over both measurements. say 4/32 and 7/32 or slightly above. I have checked and I cannot find a supplier that has any white celluloid binding with these measurements. The thickness seems to be the problem. I see that the channel is not routed evenly all around so I have to take that into consideration. Maybe because of the age (1953) the binding used was different from what is available today. I wouldn’t think you would have to laminate two pieces leaving a seam. Has anyone faced this issue ? I appreciate all the help offered here.

The Dave Staudte and Doug Graham video was very helpful.

[Ian Davlin The Looth Group]

If you’re getting it from axiom inc, you can laminate it together to get to the right dimension if you’re short and then trim down with the binding sizer. The stewmac binding lamination jig works pretty well. Just let it dry overnight for best results.

[John Carey Guitarworks of North Jersey]

Thank you Ian